Draymond Green is a lock for the basketball hall of fame with four NBA titles.
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SAN FRANCISCO — Draymond Green could walk away today and still be in the Hall of Fame.
He’s 35 years old, with four championship rings to his name and a list of accomplishments that are worthy of an invite to Springfield. No one would blame him if he decided to hang the sneakers up, go full-time with his booming media endeavors and spend the extra time with his beautiful family, especially considering all the stress caused by the controversies that have been such a staple in his NBA life.
Yet as he sits in this hallway at Chase Center on a recent Thursday, having agreed to discuss the state of defense in today’s NBA while reflecting on his storied career, the energy shifts when he begins to explain why that’s not happening anytime soon. This isn’t the only reason, but it is the one he credits with providing the kind of unexpected motivation that players with this many tree rings so desperately need. And it came courtesy of longtime Warriors media relations man, Raymond Ridder, late last season.
As Golden State made its push toward the playoffs after the Jimmy Butler trade in February, Ridder decided to share a bit of history with Green that he thought might be of interest. He noticed that the list of players who had been selected to at least 10 All-Defensive teams was full of all-time greats, with only Tim Duncan, Kobe Bryant, Kevin Garnett, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar and Scottie Pippen in that group. At the time, Green’s count was at eight.
Little did Ridder know that he was about to fuel the legendary fire that has always made Green so great.
“You see a list like that, and that immediately becomes your ‘why,’” Green, who earned his ninth All-Defensive selection months later, told The Athletic during a 34-minute interview. “It’s like, ‘Man, I need to give all that I f—ing can to be on that thing.’ When you look at a list like that and you say, ‘Man, I can be on that list.’ It’s captivating. If I’m honest, it consumes you.
“You’re always looking to add these stamps (of approval). And I think for me personally, that’s one stamp that I would love to add, for no other reason than the little kid from Saginaw being able to one day look at that list and say, ‘Damn, my name is on the list with those guys.’ …So that’s a huge, huge, huge goal of mine.”
The spirit of that pursuit is perfectly on brand.
While Green’s role as the ideal offensive complement to Stephen Curry in this Warriors dynasty has certainly been essential, it’s his value as their defensive captain that has been the foundation of his unique legacy. So when I pitched this idea to Green about a defensive discussion the week before in Los Angeles, setting the stage for the sit-down to come, it came as no surprise that he was all-in on this particular debate.
Yes, he agreed, there was a disconnect between the impact of elite team defense on winning and the way in which defensive players get paid in the NBA market (thanks largely, he would explain, to the second apron). Yes, he had thoughts about the recent comments from his old teammate, Kevin Durant, who declared that defense doesn’t, in fact, win championships(much more on that later).
Yes, he admitted, this younger crew of elite defenders led by 21-year-old phenom Victor Wembanyama is making it harder to stack up the hardware with every passing year. And yes, as you could have guessed, he’ll keep trying to do just that so long as Curry and coach Steve Kerr are around to do it alongside him.
“If you asked me this a year ago, I would have told you (that he’d play) a year or two (more),” said Green, the former second-rounder out of Michigan State who has played in a combined 1,057 games (regular season and playoffs) over the course of his 14 seasons. “But my body feels better and better every year. I’ve learned more about my body and what I need to do. I still enjoy competing at the highest level. I still enjoy setting this goal and then going through the process and trying to reach it. So I wouldn’t necessarily say (he’ll only play) a year or two, like I would have said a year ago. I don’t really put a number on it, either. Like I’ve always said, the game will tell me when it’s time to go.”
This interview has been lightly edited for brevity and clarity.
On the defensive
For anyone who somehow missed it, Green’s opinion of the current collective bargaining agreement is no mystery. In short, he hates it.
More specifically, Green has blamed the luxury-tax system, which functions like a hard cap, for killing free agency. The tax system has become quite the debate, with ESPN’s Bobby Marks among those who have pushed back on Green’s perspective.
Yet given how Green sees it, I wondered how he felt about this latest free agency period as it related to defense-first players. Even with the last two champions offering the latest proof that defense is crucial — Oklahoma City had the league’s top-ranked defense and Boston’s was second — the reality remains that scorers, even the average ones, typically get paid at a much higher rate than defensive specialists.
So where do you see the question of value when it comes to defensive players in today’s game, and is it reflective of their actual value?
I can’t just sit here and be like, ‘Man, defensive players have been slighted.’ I think, for the most part, guys are getting paid. You look at (Portland’s) Toumani Camara, who just got a four-year, $82 million deal.
(Atlanta’s) Dyson (Daniels) was four (years) for $100 (million).
Yep. Same deal as me (Green signed a four-year, $100 million extension in the summer of 2023). (Denver’s) Christian Braun is five for $125 million, (but) he’s viewed more as a two-way guy. Those that know know that he’s a damn good defender, though.
(Houston’s) Jabari Smith Jr. was five for $122 million. (Oklahoma City’s) Chet (Holmgren) is obviously…
Chet’s not a superstar yet, but I think we’re all kind of expecting him to be a star. That’s kind of a different situation. I think when you look at Jabari, he’s a guy whose defense has been criticized at times, but yet it’s a very well-deserved payout. But I just think when I look at the landscape, the guys who get taken care of are in these organizations that are prioritizing trying to win. And I think guys have gotten a pretty good due. But when you look at the ratio of the amount of guys that get paid, it’s very, very small — very low — when it comes to defensive guys. …The elite ones get paid, and those that are really good and not quite elite don’t get paid. That’s not the same for offense. If you can kind of score the ball, you get paid. You get paid more for being a 3-point specialist than being a defensive specialist.
So ultimately, who gets slighted? It’s defenders. But yet, whenever any team crosses into that territory where we’re saying, ‘Oh, man, this team may have a chance (to win it all),’ then the first thing you go look for is a defender.
But any team that’s not crossing into that territory, which is probably 20 teams, (isn’t making defense a priority). That shrinks the market of any defenders drastically, and now you’ve got a third of the league to deal with (as a free agent). All right, but five of those teams don’t have cap space, so now you wipe out five more. Now you’re sitting there with a possibility of four or five teams that would possibly even be willing to pay. Now you take in all of the CBA language, the restrictions, handcuffing you, and now the five teams shrinks to one or two. That’s where you see guys getting squeezed. So it’s very clear what happens to the defenders in this league.
OKC doesn’t win that championship without an elite defense. Your series with the Rockets (in last season’s playoffs) was like a trip back to ‘80s basketball on the defensive end. So defense is back in the forefront again, but you’re not necessarily seeing that reflected in the market. Then you have the messaging from some of your peers, like when Kevin (Durant) shares his views about defense and how, in essence, he thinks anybody can do it.
I think when you look at any team that won a championship, they had a great defense. And if you look at most teams that couldn’t quite get over the hump, oftentimes it’s (because) they couldn’t get stops. That fact still remains, and I think that those who don’t believe it, don’t win. It’s very simple. Those who don’t believe defense is as valuable as it is, they simply just don’t win. I don’t think anyone’s ever really been hell-bent on caring about the opinion of those that don’t win, because your opinion equals zero.
So I hear you, but Kevin has won.
He won here, (and) the defense here was…
It was incredible.
Absolutely.
But generally speaking, how did his perspective hit you?
Uh, it didn’t at all, because I know I do more than (just play defense), right? So when I saw K’s perspective, I was just like, ‘Huh, that’s interesting.’ But it’s also not surprising, because I know how ‘K’ thinks about the game of basketball. Like, I know that there are some all time greats — alll-tiimmee greats; I mean, like some of the elite of the elite — who don’t quite have what Kevin would consider an offensive bag and he doesn’t really think that player is as great as the masses may think, because of how he views the game.
Who comes to mind?
I’ll leave his opinions for him to share (laughs). But me and ‘K’ have had a million basketball conversations. So again, I know how he thinks about the game of basketball. His opinion didn’t surprise me one bit. But like I said, I also don’t view myself as a guy who just defends. I’m great at that — absolutely phenomenal at that — but I know that’s not all I do. Like, I’ll f— your offense and your defense up, and make your coaching staff have to go ponder, like, ‘Huh, how do we figure that out?’
So it didn’t move me one way or another. If anything, it was like a head-scratcher. I was like, ‘Huh?’ But like I said, on the flip side, it wasn’t that much of a head-scratcher because I know Kevin. …I didn’t see the whole context, so I also know that words get flipped. But I read what he said.
Well, the line that certainly made the rounds was the characterization that anybody can bend their knees and play ‘D.’
Yeah, I disagree. But opinions are opinions.
So you’re 35 now, yet you were legitimately in the Defensive Player of the Year discussion last year. The Father Time fall-off hasn’t happened. The accolades have piled up. But that dude in San Antonio is coming. In terms of Defensive Player of the Year, I know you’re not waving the white flag. But he’s one of one.
It’s not like you just wave the white flag and say, ‘Ah man, he’s just gonna win (DPOY).’ It’s the same reason I’ve always loved to play against LeBron James. When you have an opportunity to go up against the best, it brings the best out of you, if you’re up for that level of competition. It brings your best out.
For a competitor like myself, how can I stop that for one more year? And it’s not that you want to stop it in order to see (Wembanyama) do bad. But how do I hold that off for one more year? As a competitor, that’s the thought. …You know this kid has set out to be great. You hear all the stories. You see all the work he’s put in. You see the improvements, which requires a lot of work. But as a competitor, as someone who’s been throughout this race for the last 10 years or so, how do you stay in the race? How do you make it a race? How do you continue to put your mark on something in a way that not many have? So that immediately becomes the mindset for me. It’s not like, ‘Oh man, he’s gonna win it.’ F— that. He’s clearly one of the best. And when there’s one of the best up, you want to see how you stack up against that — even at 35, or at that time I’d be 36, years old. Like, last year, nothing brought me more joy than seeing the ages of the first-team (selections).
To review, there was Cleveland’s Evan Mobley (who won DPOY and was 23 at the time), Daniels (21), Oklahoma City’s Luguentz Dort (25) and Houston’s Amen Thompson (22). As an aside relating to the 10-plus All-Defensive team group, only Duncan (38), Abdul-Jabbar (36) and Garnett (35) earned selections when they were Green’s age or older.
Now it’s just a matter of ‘How long can I stack up to those young guys?’ First you wanted to be the young guy stacking up. Now, it’s ‘How long can I stack up against the young guys before you ride it back?’
Take me back to the goal of being one of the guys who has 10 All-Defensive nods. Is part of the appeal of joining that group the fact that it could simplify the conversation around you when it comes to the mark you left on the game?
I think, to some degree, it definitely simplifies it, right? Like, I think everybody’s always looking for that stamp of approval. What is that thing that you can point to and say, ‘Yeah, (but) he’s in the Hall of Fame.’ And you have these things where people point out awards, championships, points — whatever the thing is.
I don’t spend every day like, ‘Oh, man, what more do I need to do to get in the Hall of Fame?’ I spend my days wondering, ‘What can I do to continue to play at an elite level?’ If I can continue to play at an elite level, the things will happen that makes that thing happen. I also don’t view it that way because I think I’ve done several things that add a stamp. You do what I’ve done to the tune of four championships, I think that adds a stamp. Defensive Player of the Year, All-Defense teams, All-NBA, been an All-Star. (But) you’re always looking to add more stamps.
Which guy on that list would you be most excited to join?
So just for the inner kid in me that was a huge Kobe Bryant fan, who watched him dominate the league, my favorite guy on the list is Kobe. But the guy who resonates the most with me is Tim Duncan, because it wasn’t so much about athleticism with him. It’s more the brain than the athleticism. It’s more that I can outthink you than I can outrun you or I can out-jump you. Obviously Tim Duncan was 7 feet tall — that’s a whole different thing — and Tim Duncan’s f—ing probably the greatest power forward to ever grace this game. So I don’t want it to ever be viewed as I’m taking something from Tim Duncan. But I watched the way he did it. And in Year 18, he was still doing it. That was not a by-product of how he moved or jumped. When I look at the way it’s done, with positional defense, that’s the one that stands out to me the most because it’s the one that I feel as close to doing (compared to) the others.
To hear you put it into the context of you growing up, I love that you’re still in touch with that little kid part of your spirit.
That’s a part of who I still do it for. When I was that kid, you get up and f—ing kill for the opportunity to be in this space. Don’t get here and f—ing not remember that. Then you lose sight of it. No, I still very much play for that kid that was dreaming of f—ing being in the NBA. And if I can be in the NBA and add my name to a list like that, man that little kid is thrilled. That was the wild dream. That was the imagination that you could only sit there and be like ‘huh,’ and stare off into space.
Warriors future
When the topic turns to the Warriors’ present and future, Green — to no one’s surprise — isn’t shy about sharing his truth. Of course he wants to retire with the only NBA team he’s ever known. Of course, as Curry also said recently, he wants Kerr to still be the Warriors’ coach when that day eventually comes. And of course, as he made clear, he’s confident that his next contract will get worked out without any unnecessary drama in due time. While Green has this season and next on his deal, he has a player option for the 2026-27 campaign that he’ll need to make a decision on next summer.
So you said you’re good with your contract. You’ve got you and Steph lined up (Curry is signed through next season). But with Steve being in the last year of his deal, what is your plan in terms of handling your situation?
I think most importantly, I need to come out and have a great year. I’m planning to come out and have an incredible year. When you come out and have an incredible year, other conversations are allowed to happen. Other conversations tend to take their course. And I think those conversations are pretty simple, as long as I do what I have to do and live up to what I’m supposed to live up to, and play at the level that I’m supposed to play at. I have not had any issues with our front office group in 14 years, and I don’t foresee that happening now. I also have been in a space where we worked together on this thing, you know what I’m saying? My last deal, my current deal that I’m on now, that was very much so a team effort of ‘We’re going to make this work and we’re not going to just make this work and be like, f— it, this is all about getting Draymond paid.’ This is still all about getting paid, and getting what you deserve, but it’s still very much so about being in the position to be able to compete (as a team) and win. It’s not like ‘Man, I need to get this, and nothing else matters.’ No, all of it matters — the whole picture. And I think as long as the whole picture matters, we can work through it.
I feel very much so like Steve (feels). Like, if I’m supposed to be here – and I think I’m always supposed to be here – we will get that done. There is no stress. ‘Steve’s not in a space of like, ‘Oh man, I got f—ed. I don’t have an extension.’ No, he’s like, ‘We’ll take it year by year, and if it’s the right thing for all of us to do, we’re going to do it.’ I’m very much so in that space. At the end of this year, we’ll probably all have conversations. Myself, my agent (Klutch Sports founder Rich Paul), our front office group, (Warriors president of basketball operations) Mike Dunleavy, our ownership group, Joe Lacob, we’re all going to sit down at some point and assess what makes the most sense. The conversation is there to be had on ‘What do we need to do? Here’s where we are. What do we need to do next?’ So a conversation will be had no matter what.
Steph has already said publicly that he doesn’t want to play for another coach. So how, for you, does Steve come into your equation?
I struggle with change. I hate change. I am very much so (the type of person where) this thing happens like this and that’s that. To try to shift that, my brain just doesn’t do well. But I don’t sit and think about it because I don’t foresee Steve going anywhere. I don’t think we’re done. I think we’ve still got a lot left to give. We’ve all done this together, so I don’t foresee him going anywhere anyway, you know? But I very much so want to finish this thing with the people that I’ve been through it with. Adjusting to a new coach in year 14, going to 15, I cannot sit here and tell you that I have the desire to do that. But I also don’t see our coach going anywhere. …It’s motivating for us because we have a say in it. If you go out, do what you need to do, then all that other sh– takes care of itself.
How long are you gonna play?
I don’t know what that exact number is, but I do know I still enjoy a lot of what comes with this. And as long as I enjoy it, and can go through that process and give what I need to give to be at an elite level, I don’t foresee a reason to tie my shoe strings together and throw them over the telephone rope yet. I still enjoy too much of it. And I’m healthy. So you add the enjoyment with the health, and those two things can make it a little tougher (to walk away).
I’m in a space where I can fully look at this through one lens, and that’s ‘How is the basketball?’ That’s the grind of it, what I’m giving, the competition on a nightly basis. Going out there, how do I feel mentally and physically? All of that stuff is still very much intact. So that’s the only lens I need to look through right now.
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Sam Amick is a senior NBA writer for The Athletic. He has covered the Association for the better part of two decades while at USA Today, Sports Illustrated, AOL FanHouse and the Sacramento Bee. Follow Sam on X @Sam_amick.